Witam Wszystkich
Na wstepie,wielki szacun Andrzej,wiele razy korzystalem z Twoich tresci xxx lat temu.Jak pamietam jestes chemikiem z zakresu "drewoznastwa"
Zanim przejde do pewnych watpliwosci o ktorych wspomnial @tencin,troche wprowadzenia.
Jestem rosliniarzem , z zamilowaniem do chemiczno-biologicznych rozkminek ;)Oczywiscie fora z zakresu roslin i ich chemiczno-biologicznych zakresow ,conajmniej 10lat temu to portale RA czy tez holenderskie,to tam byly najbardziej ciekawe tematy w zwiazku z roslinami. Z roslinami mam do czynienia przeszlo 30llat,prowadzilem eksperymenty w nawozeniu roslin,zwracajac uwage na wyglad itp, oraz na wszystkie biologiczno-chemiczne zawilosci,(synergizm-antagonizm) przy okazji korzystalem z fotometrow Hanna,Lamotte czy tez Hach,rowniez raz na 6msc wysylalem probke wody do tritona,(spektroskopia emisyjna ze wzbudzeniem w plazmie indukowanej ,czy tez chromatografię jonową)
Odwiedzalem zachodnie portale ktore czesto maja bogatsza wiedze ,jak rowniez wiele ciekawych odniesien do wiedzy biochemicznej.
Testy testow ktore mialbys zamiar przeprowadzic,pare lat temu przeprowadzil na forum podkarpackim Zulix,Jaro jest chemikiem z doktoratem ,zreszta zapewne ponad polwa Polski korzysta z jego kalkulatora nawozow.Zawsze wysoko cenie sobie jego tresci.
Z ciekawosci jedyna osoba na swiecie w ostatnim moze 10-siecioleciu, eksperymenty z zakresu roslin oraz calym "bagazem" biochemicznym przeprowadzal Marcel z Czech
oparta na metodologi badan,analiz przy udzale profesor biochemi P.Ciskowej z uniwersytetu w Pradze.Przeprowadzalem z nim dyskusje,dotowalem badania,przeprowadzane byly analizy podlozy ,wplyw pierwiastkow,badanie pierwiastkow w suchej masie roslin itp.
To tyle jesli chodzi o takie wprowadzenie.
Przejdzmy do samych zalozen.
Na poczatek taka "luzniejsza forma" gdyz z racji tego ze odwiedzalem portale z roznych czesci swiata,zabierajac dyzskuje itp.moge calkowicie wyroznic poglad:
"Polska akwarystyka roslinna testami stoi"jestesmy mistrzami swiata w testowaniu nie majac pojecia co testujemy,jaki ma to w ogole wplyw.
"There are no test kits that are in any way "ideal" for a planted aquarium. The problem with test kits are not merely because they are inaccurate and inconsistent, but that test kits and testing for parameters that very few understand is part of a wider conspiracy by vendors to extract money by preying on our fears.
So take for example the post above stating:
I needed to act on, even if I did not know the exact level of NO3, especially if one plans to keep shrimp in the tank? In other words, those with shrimps should try to avoid "red" results for NO3 and aim for "yellow" or "orange" results?
Well firstly, who says that a certain color should be avoided? On what basis do we presume that a certain NO3 level is toxic to our invertebrates? What are the physical signs of NO3 toxicity in fish and invertebrates? Has the mechanism of this toxicity been explained? Do hobbyists realize that NO3 derived from the nitrogen cycle in the tank is the end product of a toxic cycle that begins with ammonia and nitrite? Are they aware that this is completely different than directly adding inorganic NO3 to the tank?
No one explains or elucidates these issues. Doctrines and dogmatic limits are promulgated as if written on stone tablets.
No one questions or actually tests these limits, so the test kit becomes, in effect, a kind of virtual police, or some kind of bot.
Furthermore, if these bogus test results show red or [insert danger color here] then off to the LFS we go to buy some product to ameliorate the condition in the tank. It's almost like the movie Groundhog Day. the cycle is repeated infinitely.
Test kits are part and parcel of a massive disinformation campaign, first to mesmerize the public with lore of chemical boogiemen which then drives the unsuspecting like flies into the spiders web of more deceit.
The ironic thing is that there is actual value in some test kits, but these kits measure innocuous parameters such as pH, GH and alkalinity. As usual however, the value of these parameter are twisted and perverted so the hobbyist is told to "keep you parameters stable" so off to the LFS we go to buy some product destined to maintain the parameter. Does anyone even know what pH is? Do we know the purpose of alkalinity or GH? Are people aware that a so-called KH test kit is incapable of measuring KH and actually measures alkalinity instead? Does the average test kit lover even know the difference between KH and alkalinity?
Przejdzmy dalej:
Dissolved gases (of any description) are difficult to test for, and so are most monovalent ions (like potassium K+ and nitrate (NO3-)) due to "their solubility"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_chart
Because nitrate compounds are soluble, so you need to reduce them to nitrite (NO2-) before you can get a coloured solute ("Nitrate is reduced to nitrite by a reducing agent. In the presence of an acidic buffer, the nitrite is converted to nitrous acid which diazotizes an aromatic amine, this coupled with N-(1-naphthyl)-ethylenediamine to form a red-violet azo dye") that you can measure. The alternative to the azo dye method is to use salicylic acid ("Cadmium metal reduces nitrates in the sample to nitrite. The nitrite ion reacts in an acidic medium with sulfanilic acid to form an intermediate diazonium salt. The salt couples with gentisic (salicic) acid to form an amber colored solution"). Traditionally cadmium (Cd) was used as the reducing agent, but you can use vanadium (V).
Jeśli masz odczynniki (dla obu metod), możesz sporządzić wzorce z KNO3 itp.
lub
http://www.nico2000.net/analytical/nitrite.htm#:~:text=The%20Nitrite%20Ion%2DSelective%20Electrode%20has%20a%20solid%2Dstate%20PVC,both%20field%20and%20laboratory%20applications.&text=The%20Nitrite%20Ion%20is%20a%20monovalent%20anion.
Ale duzo bardziej wazniejszym aspektem jest:
Interferencja z innymi anionami (Cl-, SO4--, HCO3- itp.),ktore beda braly udzial,to samo dotyczy K relacja z Na.
Tak samo z innym pierwiastkami,nawet przy niektorych zestawach swiatowe firmy pomiarowe Hanna ,Lamotte,Hach,Macherey-Nagel pisza o "wyizolowaniu probki" czy tez,przy innych relacjach ,czasem dodajac dodatkowe odczynniki .
Co do azotu mozna uzyc innej metody:
We use "Ion Selective Electrodes for nitrate in aqueous solution now", they have the advantage of not needing to prepare the samples and are much more "plug and play". I don't regularly test the aquarium water (some of the tanks are in one of the labs.) for nitrate, I just use the Index" as a proxy for "NO3 content" (like the LCC chart below).
Troszke inaczej bedzie z " PO4"
I'm pretty sure that will give you a reasonably accurate value for PO4--
A sample containing the phosphate is mixed with an acid solution of MoVI, for example ammonium molybdate, to produce PMo12O3−40, which has an α-Keggin structure. This anion is then reduced by, for example, ascorbic acid or SnCl2, to form the blue coloured β-keggin ion, PMo12O7−40.[5] The amount of the blue coloured ion produced is proportional to the amount of phosphate present and the absorption can be measured using a colorimeter to determine the amount of phosphorus
should be able to get "relatively accurate values for orthophosphate" (PO4---)
The greater the amount of light being intercepted by the sample the larger amount of your test substance in the water.
This isn't usually a linear relationship, it is a curve, but by diluting your sample you should be able to get it onto the initial linear section of the standard curve.
I'll do phosphorus, as that is a test you would often use colorimetry for, even in a lab situation. You would need to know which reagent it uses, in this case it looks like it is the "ascorbic acid/ammonium molybdate" method.
Ascorbic Acid Method: Ammonium molybdate and potassium antimonyl tartrate react in an acid medium with ortho-phosphate to form phosphomolybdic acid that is reduced to molybdenum blue by ascorbic acid .. measured light absorbed or transmitted at a wavelength of 700 - 880 nanometres"
I can see a couple of problems straight away, you can't create a standard curve, unless you use at least 3 of the "starter pack of 6 reagents for Phosphate", and have access to a phosphate standard solution so you would be reliant on the internal standard curve used as a datum by the colorimeter, also potassium antimony tartrate is a poison, so won't be in the reagent, or if it is this would make it impossible to make up your own reagents, and you would be reliant on buying the Hanna ones.
Jeszcze zapewne beda w reakcji z dowolnymi jonami (Pb) oraz (Cu) w wodzie?
Nie chce spamowac wiecej,gdyz jest jeszcze tego sporo (chociaz Andrzeja w jego "esejach" nie jestem w stanie pobic)
,w kazdym razie nie jest to takie oczywiste
Przepraszam za brak ogonkow,oraz wydaje mi sie ze tresci orginalne beda lepsze niz w tlumaczeniu cos moglbym przekrecic.
Pozdrawiam Marek.